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It does require people to change their views andnot to use terms like “left women” which is a negative term. Society has tochange so people don’t use those. Somebody who has not got married, maybe canget married in the future. Let’s stop call them somebody “left”.
By Ricardo Jin(金超逸)
RICARDO JIN: Thereis an attention-attracting problem in China today called “left women”, meaninga lot of women remain unmarried at a fairly old age. Do you think this is areasonable phenomenon? Why?
PETER MCDONALD: China, in terms of education, is still a long way behind a lot of othercountries. In countries of Europe and the United States, women are much moreeducated. And in most countries, women get married, so there is an idea inChina that women must marry at a relatively young age. But in a lot ofcountries, women continue their education and get married, and maybe when theyare 27, 28, 29 or 30, they get married and they have their own 2 children, soit can be done. The condition in China is not problematic,it would be problematic if women were not allowed to be educated. Clearly,women are going to be educated, there is no point of thinking it problematicwhen women get educated, because they will be educated and this is good forChina, this is good for China’s economy. The important thing is that women areable to combine their work and career with having children. China might need tomake some policy changes to ensure that women are able to get educated, worktheir careers, but also have children.
RICARDO JIN: Thereis a problem in China, an interesting joking saying that there are 3 sexes, oneis male, one is female, the other is female doctors. It seems that femaledoctors are strange. They cannot get married because no men dare to marry them.Their educational background, along with some other factors, make them not ableto be accepted by the society appropriately. How to solve this problem? How tomake their situation better?
PETER MCDONALD: Menhave to change. It is not women that have to change, but it is men that have tochange. Men have to get used to the idea that women are going to be educated,and maybe they are going to be more educated than male. There are a lot ofrelationships. There are countries now where women are more educated than man.
RICARDO JIN: Whatis the way to change the men’s and the society’s total view that Chinese peoplecan accept?
PETER MCDONALD: Inthe future generations, there are more males than females in China’s society,so if males are not going to marry educated women, they will not get married atall, so they have to change their views, they have to think about marryingwomen who are educated. The society has to change, and the society will change.But it does require people to change their views and not to use terms like “leftwomen” which is a negative term. Society has to change so people don’t usethose. Somebody who has not got married, maybe can get married in the future.Let’s stop call them somebody “left”.
RICARDO JIN: Also,young people today have problem purchasing apartment houses. The marriage hasbeen put off, and love view seems change a lot. Do you think these havesomething to do with low fertility? What’s the way out?
PETER MCDONALD: Let’s get to the housing one. Maybe there’s a housing shortage in China, and onthis issue the government does have a role. The government can influence thehousing market, and try to ensure that there is a better housing market, likein Singapore for example, that the government does heavily involving in thehousing market, that’s Chinese population. Maybe on housing, the governmentdoes have a role. The principal way to do with low fertility in China is tochange one child policy. Most demographers believe China has retained one childpolicy for too long. One child policy was created 30 years ago, for onegeneration. That is 30 years has already gone. China’s population is under control. And ifwe look forward to the future, not very long into the future, China’spopulation will fall, because it has one child policy for a long time, when onechild grow up into parents, you will get a much smaller number of parents, sothe number of birth will fall in China, because of the age structure ofpopulation, not because of one child. So it is now to change the one childpolicy. And if China is worried about population growth it can move to a twochild policy. It’s very simple. But I don’t think there is any guarantee thatthe birth rate in China will actually rise, even if people are allowed to have2 children, because in the big cities like Shanghai, people on average haveless than 1 child. Some people will not have children at all. In terms ofpeople having materialistic values, life is not just about “BMW”s, life isabout other values, the family is very, very important, and I think this kindof message can be promoted by government through the educational system, notpure materialistic values but the value that family is important For mostpeople, family is what is most important. We define ourselves in terms offamily, children. I have six grandchildren. I think that’s great.
RICARDO JIN: Today,more and more women take part in working. How to view advantages anddisadvantages of this change?
PETER MCDONALD: The main advantage is the advantage to China’s economy. Women are half theworld, and they have half the human capital, if you don’t use that humancapital, it’s a waste. It’s bad for China’s economy not to use that availablehuman capital. Women, liken men, are also clever people, they can use that(their cleverness) to build China’s economy. That’s the main advantage. This istrue in all the countries, so we talk about low fertility. If we have asituation where the nature of society doesn’t allow women to combine work withhaving children, then that’s a problem. So governments need to consider ways likechild-care, like maternity-live, even some systems of families and childrenthat will enable women to combine work with family. Employers also are playingan important role. Employers need to recognize that some people are parents, notjust mothers but fathers too.
RICARDO JIN: Lowfertility brings about aging of population. Nevertheless, old people todayparticipate more in economic issues. They can buy bonds, buy some securities,or even take part in work even if they are retired. How do you think about itsmeaning?
PETER MCDONALD: I wantto say it a good thing if people want keep working when they are somewhatolder. In the rural areas in China, all the people have been working all thetime. So that’s not new. And just like women, they have human capital,contributed to the economy. They have value that they can contribute to theeconomy if they keep working. It is fairly stared there cross countries thatcountries are trying to keep people to work longer, after they retire, and theycan still be productive.
RICARDO JIN: And doesthe quality of population parallel to low fertility from your observation?
PETER MCDONALD: The quality of population is largely related to education.
RICARDO JIN: Itseems that since the smaller scale of people produced, they can get moreresources, they can get better education on each. But do you think from theworld scale, from Australia, or from China, the condition is quite this? Or doyou think something has been wrong?
PETER MCDONALD: Well it’s true that if we get back to history in China when people have 5 or 6children, they were not able to educate all the 5 or 6 children. But if theyhave 1, or maybe they have 2, it’s much easier to educate. So yes, the lowfertility does help the society increase the educational level supposed, andthat’s what China has been doing, and what other countries have done as well inEast Asia, in Korea and Japan. But I think it doesn’t have to be one child. Itcan be two.
RICARDO JIN: Buteven one child has some problems, just like some poor families do not have enoughmoney and want their children, even one, to make money more earlier than geteducated.
PETER MCDONALD: It’sa question of people recognizing the effect of particular education will have, ifthey choose particular paths, there will be difficulties in getting a well-paidjob. If you are taking a path which is maybe Chinese literature or something,maybe the opportunities are not good for employment. In making that decisionthey get into a forge that they are going to live their lives more difficult interms of employment. Alternatively, if they are going towards the IT industry,there will be lots of opportunities. People can make their own choices, butthey need to be aware of what the effects of their choices are going to be. I’mnot saying we shouldn’t value the arts and literature, and the government canplay a role in supporting jobs in literature as a support for China’s culture.
RICARDO JIN: It issaid that the only child also cause the problem of providing for the agedbecause of the age structure of population. Old people are getting more andmore, and due to one child policy, when the only child becomes an adult, he orshe has to provide for 4 old people: father, mother, father in law, and motherin law. To solve the problem, is opening policy, maybe 2 children or 3 enough? Orare there something other than that to do?
PETER MCDONALD: Wellthat choice has already been made. Because China has had a one child policy fora long time, we have a generation of single children with a larger generationof aged people to look after. That’s something we cannot change, because it hasalready happened. You cannot reverse it. What to do now ismore the problem. And the stronger is China’s economy, the better because witha strong economy in China, governments will be able to assist families insupporting old people. So this support will not just be the role of the onechild of the family. So I think that China has to think that supporting the oldgeneration is not just the family’s responsibility but a public responsibility.Particularly for this generation, it was China’s government that decided thatChina should have the one child policy. The result now is that the one child isrequired to look after a lot of old people. Therefore the Chinese governmenthas a moral obligation to assist with aged support. Because it created thatsituation, it has a moral obligation to be involved in supporting the oldgeneration. Public aged care support requires strong government institutionsthat will provide that support to all the people.
Peter McDonald Director of Australian Demographic andSocial Research Institute (ADSRI), The Australian National University.
