Hello, welcome to visit Shanghai Forum
After ten years, we are still enhancing attention toevery aspect of ecological
environment construction and improving standardpolicies as well as legal
regulations, and therefore, I believe that we willhave a better environment after 10 years to do what we want to do.
Reporter: Zou Ye
Reporter: Some scholars think that from a longitudinal perspective, our ecologystudy has much improved, yet you have said that “China’s environment baselinestudy is very backward and has mistakes in fundamental thinking”, can you givea detailed introduction of China’s environment baseline study?
Zhou: We dividethe environment standard into three parts: one is environment standard ofwater, the second is of air, and the third is of land. China pays muchattention to environment baseline of water: during eleventh five-year plan,China has invested billions to develop water projects, yet standard for landenvironment relatively lags behind. For example, there are two main systems inAmerican land environment baseline, the first of which is quality standards andthe second is repair standards of polluted land. However, China only has onequality standard, and the environment quality standard of land published in1995 has not been revised till now and therefore it is very imperfect.
Reporter: You have said that we are in a key period for regulating environmentstandard and law. What is your understanding of“key period”? How many connections does pollution have with flawed environmentalregulations? How do we pass this period?
Zhou: Our regulations and laws are gradually improving. We should not bein a hurry during the process, and should make further research on the task.With widely recognized standard and well practice process, our environmentalproblems will be better solved. Many pollution problems nowadays have much todo with flawed environmental regulations. People tend to doubt applicability ofregulations and laws because of their imperfection, and thus avoid practicingenvironmental protection altogether. Additionally, while we improve regulationsand laws, we need to better cultivate public sense of environmental protection.
Reporter: The environmentis a global issue nowadays, and pollution is not limited to a single country,yet international pollution tends to involve so many factors. Are there anygood measures according to you?
Zhou:Environmental issue always involves political staff and national profit. Forexample, in the Songhua River pollution, Russia and Japan are located indownstream and they are surely concerned with upstream pollution. Also, air pollutionmay float from the Eastern Hemisphere to the Western Hemisphere. For example,in early times, SO2 produced in British industrial production floated in theair, and finally formed acid rain in Sweden, and therefore, Sweden foughtagainst UK using coal containing sulfur. China is not located on a lonelyisland, and we have Japan and Russia in our vicinity, and Vietnam and thePhilippines to the south. Their problems will affect China as well. It is alsotrue with Shanghai: Shanghai has developed very fast these years, yet theenvironmental problems are also very prominent, and not only Shanghai, butsurrounding areas such as Jiangsu, Zhejiang, etc. are affected as well. Thereis also the public sea issue, and therefore, all countries are concerned withpollution.
To solveinternational pollution needs communication and cooperation. I myself thinkthat we should take active measures to solve the problem: firstly, we need touse policy support; secondly, we should improve administrative efficiencythrough improvement of sciences and technologies, and put these technologiesinto practice through organizations such as environmental protectiondepartment; thirdly, we should try to enhance international cooperation andlearn from other countries.
We need to lift concern with environmental problems to public level, andthus problems can be better solved. Nowadays, many people do not know, or havelimited knowledge, or do not have enough sense of environmental protection onmany environmental problems, and thus influence duty taking.
Reporter: You havesaid that “we should correctly deal with relationship between economicdevelopment and energy saving”. How can Shanghai face the problem as China’economic center?
Zhou: Shanghai is always a city centered on industry, and industrialdevelopment needs sufficient energy supply, and therefore, Shanghai needs tofirst face energy issue. In order to solve energy problem, we need first saveenergy, and then try to reduce consumption of carbon, which is just what weusually call “energy saving and emission reduction”. “Energy saving andemission reduction” is not an easy task, and needs support of policy andtechnology. Technology is relatively easy, yet once policy and profit issuesare involved, it is hard to promote good technology, which is a problem we facenowadays.
Reporter: How can we face population issue, energy issue, land issue,especially coordination of land resource between city and town in China’s rapidurbanization? How can we achieve green urban development at the same time?
Zhou: Urbanization re-allocates population, and during the re-allocationprocess, the original ecology system will definitely be destroyed. Urbanizationand ecology system seem to be in contradiction with each other, yet if we wellplan and practice, urbanization can develop hand in hand with green city.Population in London takes 30% of whole British population, and it is a highlyurbanized area, and it practices environmental protection as well. If Shanghaipays attention to ecological protection and make better plans during urbanconstruction, it can still achieve greenness as well as development. Surely,the precondition is that urban design and policy should be long-term andsystematic, especially should pay attention to ecology design.
Reporter: From2009 to 2011, Minhang district won “Model Project of UN Environmental-friendlyCity”, “Gold Medal for World Best Roof Greening City”, etc., and we can seethat many green projects take areas that have not been largely developed assites. How can areas which have already been heavily polluted such as downtownarea in Shanghai develop green urbanization?
Zhou: Don’t makegreen project just a show. Central cities and old industry regions shouldpractice urban construction according to their own characteristics, and shouldnot follow one type, or else much money will be spent without resolvingproblems.
Therefore, we needto make good ecology design according to detailed condition of the place atthat time, the ecology condition, pollution condition, etc.
Reporter: If wepromote “green urbanization” as a concept to the public, and try to make greencity living the norm, what is your suggestion about that?
Zhou: There isstill the issue of improvement of international morality and sense ofenvironmental protection. There are several aspects of improvement of sense ofenvironmental protection: government should provide good guidance, andwell-known scholars and entrepreneurs should also play their role becauseordinary people alone cannot improve and deepen knowledge. We need to promoteenvironmental protection in every way; for example, TV should promote theimportance of ecology to contemporary people and their future generationsthrough public service advertising or other means in order to influence theaudience.
Reporter: What isyour suggestion on Shanghai’s green urbanization construction and sustainabledevelopment?
Zhou: I have spenta long time in UK, and British cities developed very early because of theindustrial revolution. At first, London suffered severe pollution, and then itpaied much attention to environmental protection, and nowadays their ecologicalenvironmental protection is very good. Shanghai can learn from London’sexperience. Shanghai’s industrial development is also earliest in China andshare many similarities with London in environmental administration, andtherefore, I suggest Shanghai first learn from London. Chicago in America isalso one source of industrial revolution, and we can also learn positively fromtheir experience.
As to detailed suggestions, the first is to enhance public sense ofenvironmental protection, and the second is to strengthen scientific researchon technical level and try to put technology into practice as soon as possible.
Reporter: Somepeople think that nowadays China’s environmental pollution is too severe torecover from, yet there are also some others stating that China’s currentcondition is necessary during this stage of development, what is your opinionabout that?
Zhou: I think itis a stage during the whole development, and we should positively face it.Existence of any social stage has its reasons, and we know that westerncountries suffered very severe pollutions during the 1960s and 70s. They beganto pay attention to environmental protection after their economies developed.For example, the Rhine river in Germany was also heavily polluted in the past,which means that as long as we pay enough attention, positively face problem,and especially try to protect environment from being severely destroyed,environment can more easily gain recovery.
Reporter: What will China be like according to you after 10 years?
Zhou: Ten-years is actually not a long time; especially in history andit will pass quickly. I can still recall things happening ten years ago as ifthey happened yesterday.After ten years, we will pay more attention to everyaspect of ecological environment construction and improve standard policies aswell as legal regulations, and therefore, I believe that we will have a betterenvironment after 10 years to do what we want to do. Pollution will not be so prominentat that time, and environmental problems, especially some polluted lands andwaters can be well solved. I am confident of finding solutions to our ecologicaland environmental problems.
Introduction ofZhou Qixing:
Dean of Collegeof Environment Sciences and Engineering in Nankai University, professor, PhDsupervisor, distinguished professor of Changjiang Scholar of Department ofEducation, director of Pollution Ecology Professional Committee of ChineseEcology Society
