Hello, welcome to visit Shanghai Forum
In my point of view, we should slow, even stopexploitation of resources since technology is not qualified yet. It is betterto leave resources to our offspring than blindly exploit them now.
Reporter: Wang Kai
Reporter: Inrecent years, you have been promoting not to burn mixed waste, then what is a reasonableand effective way to deal with waste according to you?
Zhao Zhangyuan:For domestic garbage, we need resort to recycling and reuse. I have been tomany provinces and cities, and found that enterprises had all kinds of ways todeal with waste and basically they could achieve recycling and reuse of waste.Nowadays, many enterprises can deal with over 80% waste, and the problem isthat some technologies may not be perfect. Surely, there exists lack of inputas well, and therefore, if government can well support these enterprises, thefuture of waste recycling and reuse is very bright. What we should do is to mixresourceful use of waste into circular economy, which requires sorting of wasteat community level and private enterprises’ active participation. We shouldenhance various ways to process waste and build resourceful use of wasteindustrial parks at different levels.
There have already been previous cases inforeign countries. In the past, Japan was No.1 in burning waste, yet now,Japanese government has ordered to close two thirds incinerators, and only 10%wastes which are too difficult to be reused are burnt while other wastes areall reutilized by resource enterprises.
An important partin so-called circular economy is that the producer needs to be responsible forrecycling, and therefore, enterprises should not only be responsible forproduction, but also for recycling and reuse.
Reporter: What isthe current situation in China or Shanghai?
Zhao Zhangyuan:Actually, places in China differ little in such case. Some places just put upwaste sorting slogans, or set up long-term experimental sites, while do notreally practice them. However, some other places have already establishedmodels. For instance, Guangzhou has organized 14 communities to sort waste, andWangping town in Mentougou, Beijing has achieved zero waste after wastesorting, which are both worth learning from. In waste processing issue, we needto base on government lead, and be supported by public supervision, implementresponsibility to community and individual, and then to form a whole system ofproduction, transportation and processing.
Reporter: As topower of people, you have also mentioned in your paper about it. For example,you have said that if government really plays the role of lead and carries outpolicy in circular processing of waste, the public will practice it. Where doesyour confidence of the public come from?
Zhao Zhangyuan: Wecannot ignore the peoples’ power. There are almost 1.50 million environmentalprotection organizations in the United States, and they are strong enough todirectly influence ways to deal with many things or even policy decision. Backin China, we have also set up many environmental protection organizations andthey have already actively participated in kinds of environmental protectionbusinesses. For example, in Beijing Liulitun and Asuwei, it is the public thatprevents construction of incinerators. Also, in the Bohai Gulf oil leakaccident, people from environmental protection organizations arrived at theaccident site shortly after, and they urged persons in charge to deal with theaccident in time and pushed forward exposure of the accident, which were wellknown to the public.
Ordinary people are also very concerned about theirsurrounding environment. For example, local government in Wuxi once planned tobuild an incinerator, yet there were villa complexes nearby. When local peopleheard about the news, they specially sent representatives to Beijing, askedenvironmental-friendly organizations for help, and set up a public supervisionteam as well preventing construction of the incinerator without permission andrequiring resourceful processing of wastes after being sorted.
China is developing, and so is people’ssense of environment protection and rights protection. Though different peoplediffer in extent of participation, and different places also differ in senseand urgency of environment protection, we should see it with the perspective ofdevelopment. More and more people are beginning to participate in environmentprotection, and more and more environment-friendly organizations are set up,which shows progress of our society, and therefore, I am very confident ofChina’s public participation in environment protection.
Reporter: In yourreport, you have mentioned that you hope that we can control or restrictexploitation of oil, yet energy shortage is a very realistic issue, what isyour opinion about that?
Zhao Zhangyuan: Itis actually very hard to set up a satisfactory standard for energy demand, andwhat our government needs to do is to control development speed orderlyaccording to people’s demand and current environmental capacity. By sayingcontrol development speed, I do not mean that we have to close down factories,but we need time to deal with current pollutions and prevent their recovery,and in this way, development speed will necessarily slow down and environmentcan be improved as well. We need government to control and design development,not to pay too much attention to increase speed of GDP. We do not need toachieve a development rate over 10%, and it is all right to have a developmentrate under 10%, which is the green GDP that we promote. In my view, after wegain adequate food and clothing, we should try to control development speed,and guarantee that we can return steadily to previous environment. Though thedevelopment speed may be slower, people enjoy sound health.
As to Bohaioil exploitation issue, our current exploitation technique and pollutioncontrol technique are not mature enough. Oil tank in Dalian just exploded, yetthe emergency management was so poor that local people had to capture oil withbare hands. Now there is oil exploitation mistake, and the time of loss ofcontrol is as long as 3 months. Therefore, I am strongly against too fast andtoo much exploitation of Bohai oil, and in my point of view, we would ratherslow down, even stop exploitation of resources since technology is notqualified yet. We would rather leave resources to our offspring than blindlyexploit them now.
Reporter: As topollution, you also mentioned air pollution in your speech on Shanghai Forum,of which a very important part was to control pollution brought by coalburning. Shanghai has already promoted natural gas in households; do you thinkit can relieve pollution?
Zhao Zhangyuan:Natural gas is relatively better than coal. Though burning natural gas or coalgas also emits greenhouse gas, yet gas can get sufficient burning, which makesit much better than burning coal. Pollutants such as SO2 emitted by coal burninghave already become a big damage on earth. SO2 can form acid rain, and isdirect cause of many chronic diseases of human beings.
In coal burningissue, large-scale heating power plants are emission giants, yet small-scaleheat-engine plants bring more problems. They not only produce dust, but alsoemit dioxin which people dislike most. Though the country has already forbiddenit very early, now dioxin reappears in the new package of green energy. Nowgovernment needs to further improve their supervision, yet their sense ofenvironment lags behind, which is also an important reason that we fight againstburning mixed waste, and what we should do now is to urge government to dealwith it as soon as possible.
Reporter:Pollution also affects our food safety. What should we do about that?
Zhao Zhangyuan:There is too much that can be said about the problem. It is very important tosupervise food safety from government perspective. First of all, governmentshould guarantee safety of land, because there are certain standards ofagricultural production base, and once land is polluted, government needs toforbid local production. Secondly, we need to guarantee kinds of agriculturalproducts, and furthermore, professional organizations need to examine foodsafety to strictly guarantee kinds of additives. However, all those measureslag behind. Therefore, people have to take necessary action and suitableprotection measure when they have no choice. For example, they can filterdrinking water with water machine at home, and can purify air with air cleaner.They should also choose their living environment, and try to avoid buying foodcontaining too many additives.
Reporter: You haveremarked “Beijing, Shanghai and Tokyo are not suitable for human beings to livein.” Can you explain?
Zhao Zhangyuan: Ifwe only look at convenient transportation, cultural degree, etc., these citiesare still livable cities. What I mean by saying not suitable for living is thatenvironment is bad for health. If health cannot be guaranteed, the cities can’tbe called livable cities anymore. Air pollution in East Asia is the severest inthe world, and the three cities count for a lot in the air pollution. Beijing,in particular, has ranked the bottom three in air quality research published byEnvironment Protection Department.
I do not mean to getlocal residents to move out. I just provide my suggestion and hope to raisepeople’s attention to it. I hope that government can take measures as soon aspossible, develop circular economy and fight against pollution, which alsorequires mutual effort of all people.
Reporter: In theend, would you like to imagine China after ten years?
Zhao Zhangyuan: Itis hard to say, and it mainly depends on how government controls theenvironment issue. If we still develop as current situation, the future Chinawill be in great danger. First of all, human beings’ health cannot beguaranteed. Currently, China has become a country with largest number of newcancer sufferers, and the number of diabetes patients and angionosis patientsincreases rapidly as well.
Moreover, patientsof such diseases tend to be younger and younger, and even babies suffer suchdiseases. Birth defect is a very important reason of baby death and disabilitiesof children and adults. The most dangerous thing happening in China is therapid decline of fertility. Male suffers “sperm crisis” and female encountersfetus death. After 10 years, such problem will be more prominent than today,and at that time, fertility difficulty will directly threaten China’sdevelopment. The so-called human beings extinction is not an exaggeration.Scientists all over the world have sensed that if environment is furtherpolluted, the sixth species extinction may really come in the future.
Introduction of Zhao Zhangyuan:
Researcher in Chinese Academy of EnvironmentalSciences, graduated from Peking University in the year 1969, director ofLaboratory of Lake Environment and Laboratory of Offshore Environment, deputydirector and secretary general of Environment Professional Committee of ChineseGeophysical Society, expert of Environmental Project Evaluation Center of ChineseAdministration of Environmental Protection
